Oliver North explains why conservatives should support McCain
Oliver North has written a nice article over at Real Clear Politics entitled Decision Time for Conservatives. In it, he argues that conservatives who want to divide the party most certainly will lose the election, and while winning their squabble, they will be losing the war. (HT SilverHallide)
Neither John McCain nor anyone in his campaign asked me to write this
column. But I cannot sit silently while my fellow conservatives do to
John McCain what GOP "moderates" did to me. Today the stakes for our
country are far higher, and the implications for the future are far
greater than who sits in one of 100 U.S. Senate seats.
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two things come to mind when contemplating conservative support for McCain.
1)conservatives feel that their core values are the core values of the party. we also feel that Mc is not as much interested in advancing conservative thought, but is much too willing to leave the conservative path and work with the likes of Ted Kennedy and those of his ilk in order to satisfy his own agenda.
2)Bush has left a sour taste in our mouths. If he is the picture of conservative leadership, then we do not want it. Mc seems to be an egotistical ass who seems to never miss a chance to put a finger in the eye of conservatives. the “lets all calm down” comment just reinforces our point.
as i have said, again i say it, we have compromised are values in the past, we bought the bill of goods sold to us by W. Mc is a continuation in our eyes. no more compromise.
he could, could, change some minds IF a true conservative was asked to run with him. some reassurance could be bought. maybe.
hunger for a true, non-compromising, strong conservative leader is very real. just not found.
the Che Guevara/Cuban flag tacked to the wall in an Obama office in Houston gives us a good reference point though, a reminder really, of what the loss of our core values, as Americans, can and will mean for our future.
Ben, I understand that mccain is not a complete conservative, but I also think that just because he forms partnerships on some issues with the left doesn't make him a traitor. I understand why you might want to stand for principle to stop the slide away from conservatism, but I don't think that is the way to do it.
Some things the right and left agree upon, believe it or not – we're all Americans, and do share some things. I mean, once in a blue moon, Ted Kennedy might say something right.
And again, I think that the top issues right now are
1. abortion
2. terrorism
3. budget
I think mcc will do fine on these, and since more supreme court justices are sure to retire, we can not afford to lose seats to those who think that the right to life is not to be extended to the unborn.
"Ben, I understand that mccain is not a complete conservative, but I also think that just because he forms partnerships on some issues with the left doesn't make him a traitor. I understand why you might want to stand for principle to stop the slide away from conservatism, but I don't think that is the way to do it." ——-
seeker, he is a Mod. that is why Mod's find that they could vote for him, why he can draw from independents.
Mc is not down the middle though. he dabbles left, and since he has started off that way and is now trying to work his way right, conservatives feel that, again, we will be duped into supporting someone who only disguises himself as a Conservative, and then, after our numbers are no longer needed, are point of view will then be dispatched to the rubbish heap. it is an instinctual thing with Mc, not a temper tantrum, and it does not help anyone to paint conservatives like they are living in the past, or are spoiled childern, since our values are timeless and are always a winning strategy.
if we do not act in this passive aggressive manner, seeker, then what strategy shall we employ? we will be heard. Mc's campaign will have to be inclusive of us, we will not bend to him if he can not show us he hears us. and not just speak the words, he must show it.
its not that we dislike him, we hunger for a leader! its that he has a disdain for us. his moving toward the right over the past year and a half was merely he positioning himself for his run.
i, we, would never call the man a traitor. he had to deal with real horror and depravity as a young man. most of the younger folks that surround him, on both sides of the aisle, have never had to make the kind of decisions he had to make at that age. he has my respect for that.
but that was 40 yrs ago and he was not running for president. time has moved on.
when has he reached across the aisle and formed an alliance that helps the causes of Conservatism? anything sewn together by he and the other aisle has strenghthened only other aggendas.
"Some things the right and left agree upon, believe it or not – we're all Americans, and do share some things. I mean, once in a blue moon, Ted Kennedy might say something right." ——-
as far as we all being Americans, you are preaching to the choir. that is why i feel the way i do. that is why i may sound a bit over the top at times. i see what i consider good and honorable things being cashed in for lesser values, and many are Ok with this.
a Cuban flag w/the image of Che Guevara on an office in Houston of a man running for president of the US … American values compromised.
Juan Hernandez on Mc's panel of advisors. have you heard this man speak? it goes far beyond legalizing border jumpers … American values compromised.
The Bush legal advisors amicus submitted to SCOTUS stating that on the 2ndA, the Feds have the right to declare any small arm illegal, as they see fit … American values compromised.
i am not trying to swerve off topic, i am laying down where Conservative values have been ignored or worse.
no more compromise.
"And again, I think that the top issues right now are
1. abortion
2. terrorism
3. budget
I think mcc will do fine on these, and since more supreme court justices are sure to retire, we can not afford to lose seats to those who think that the right to life is not to be extended to the unborn." ——-
that is your topics i take it, in the order you find as important. this may not be the order with conservative thinkers. its a bit diff i think.
the point of the 200+ fed judges that will be appointed and the 2(?) SCOTUS judges is concerning for sure, all the more reason for Mc to wake up, forge his distate for Conservatives, and be a leader to us. with 12 to 16 million Dems showing up to vote, and 8 to 9 million Pubs, over the caucuses, he is going to need us.
this may not be the order with conservative thinkers. its a bit diff i think.
Interesting point. Who speaks for conservatives? Or if there is more than one "authority," what sub-groups are then identified?
Perhaps
- evangelical conservatives
- south park conservatives
- fundamentalist conservatives
- reagan conservatives
Maybe we need a venn diagram ;)
reagan conservatives?
Seeker without going too far off topic, I don't think that the classic Reagan Conservative from 1980 represents the conservative movement today. Actually, considering how far right the Conservative movement and the Republican Party has moved in the last decade, I highly doubt that Ronald Reagan if he were alive today and running could get the nomination. Some of his policies frankly would be viewed as too moderate to moderate-liberal for the conservative base.
This is something to think about. We often ideolize leaders that came to represent movements in political history (Reagan, Roosevelt, Kennedy, etc). They were great in their day and made marks on the country that partisans are proud of. However, if one was to consider that same person with those same positions running today, it is doubtful they would match up to what the popular view of Conservativism or Liberalism is today. Kennedy would be viewed as a moderate compared to Obama, Eisenhower a Liberal, and Reagan, well, I will let you draw your own conclusions.
-s
Well, that's why I bring it up. What are the distcintives and positions of each, and when I say "i am a conservative," does that have any real meaning if i don't say what kind?
Well, that's why I bring it up. What are the distcintives and positions of each, and when I say "i am a conservative," does that have any real meaning if i don't say what kind?
I see your point. I missed that… Yes I think it is important to distinguish. There have been so many changes to Party positions, liberalism, conservative over the last 100 years that it not sufficient to say one is a conservative.
I would liken it to telling a foreigner that I am an American. The natural question is where are you from…of course we are citizens of states, counties, towns, etc. We as countrymen share a common bond as Americans, but those commonalities are not nearly as defined as those that are more regional specific.
Similarly, using liberalism as an example. Saying one is a "New Deal Democrat" carries a totally different set of priorities and social values than a Centrist Democrat or a Pragmatic Conservative, Fiscal Conservative, Evangelical Conservative, etc. It all deals with specifics.
So, while you may share a common bond of the banner of "Conservative" with others, that's were the similarities end…where you come down on certain issues puts you in a distinct camp of a group from others. This does not make you any more or less conservative than others (we can have that debate), but merely distinguishes where you are in the conservative spectrum. I think it is wholly naive to think that Conservativism and Liberalism is homogenius in terms of beliefs and positions.
Now, one could easily have an argument that based upon these divisions and specifics (e.g., Evangelical Conservative) who in fact is the standard bearer now for the broad base national conservative or Republican movement…same thing with the Liberal side. That is a valid discussion, but the specifics do matter as well as a practical realization that some of the classic standard bearers (read Reagan, Eisenhower, Kennedy) etc probably could not get elected today due to shifts in society and political belief systems on both sides of the spectrum.
Interesting and thought provoking if you really stop to analyze it pragmatically and without partisan passion or rhetoric.
Sounds like we need a grid that lists, for each type of con or lib, each possible issue, it's relative priority, and the position taken. But I don't want to do it ;)
heck with the grid ….
Conservative formulation in the mid-west:
usually having a Christian background, which formulates a sense of right and wrong which acts as my(our?)scale on which we weigh issues.
God's law being our center, man's law sprinkled in and all is well unless these laws cross our spiritual threshold in a negative manner, this sets off our BS alarm(again this "alarms" parameters shaped by law and order, in reflection of our law and order God).
seeker:
"And again, I think that the top issues right now are
1. abortion
2. terrorism
3. budget …………………………………….
those being seekers, and i suppose reflects his personal and or demographics of his area.
here, where even most dems are conservative relatively, i would say:
1. economy – purchasing power of the dollar concerns
2. immigration – understanding that it is a national sec issue
3. war
And ben, do you have the issues prioritized? If so, in what order?
personally?
i would say:
1. Attacks on the Constitution and are sovereign rights by the past two presidents.
1A. immigration/fix the illegal problem – beef up border and port sec. instead of wasting gobs of cash on "global warming", lets all be safe now, especially the big cities of the SW, the ones who have stupid immigration policy and actually effectively hide them from Fed authority by their "enlightened" policies, and this has been going on for decades. who knows what lives in those huge sprawling sanctuary cities. well, we are starting to uncover the tip of the iceberg, but an ultra lib or a left leaning mod pres will bury it for another decade and disarm the public at the same time.
2. the dollar. the economy is slowed by recession.
instead of income re-distribution and subsidizing people who make stupid life decisions and "rebates" which are little de-valued carrots on a stick, lets cut taxes across the board and allow market forces to heal us.
3. war – closely tied with #1 above. Mexico is so porous, so corrupt, and with the reports and rumors that have been circulating about islamic/drug/military banditry there, to me it is no different than the borders that israel share with their arab neighbors.
lets crush global enemies now, before technology allows despots the ability to inflict more harm than the bomb vest does.
islamic influence in the West has been ignored even till now, and we can blame "enlightened" policies of global socialistic gov's, the feel good policies of once strong nations. millions of untracked, ghetto living immigrants, motivated by the right person or event, way out number police forces. bye bye Paris, London, Rome, etc.
1 really pisses me off. if that is not policed by the people, none of the rest really matter. i would rather be dead, and in God's hands than free in a cage.
wow, so you call yourself a Christian and don't think abortion is an issue? I'd say you are a conservative, but not a Christian conservative, at least, in your priorities.
How would you respond to that accusation? Would you say "who decides what is Christian?" I mean, you seem more interested in America than in justice. Just asking.
i listed what the 3 biggest issues were to me.
as far as abortion is concerned, i personally believe its wrong in all cases. i believe it is immoral, as murder is.
but i do not think of it as a political issue of great significance, i see it as a cultural struggle in the US. and as such, i think it would be longer lasting and more substantial beaten culturally and persuasively than by political action.
we despise abortion because we are taught life is precious … that the life carried in the womb is precious and closer to perfection than we who have lived and failed God becuase of our weaknesses … that the life carried by mom is a re-presentation of God's creative ability and love that we as men(inclusive of women of course)in all of our imperfectness can duplicate … that the womb was the chosen vehicle of the birth of our messiah and therefore has that bit of history so important to our faith, etc. love and respect for life is central to our faith. in God's image.
but others do not feel this way. they look at the life created as an accident and murder as a contraceptive. to me it is a cultural battle.